NewsOK: Adults air dirty laundry online (login with Bugmenot.com
. . . These are among the hundreds of secrets being confessed on an adults-only Web site recently launched by Edmond-based Life Church.
The site — www.mysecret.tv — began simply as an online component of a message series started earlier this month by senior pastor Craig Groeschel.
However, church officials said it has quickly taken on a life of its own.Church members spread the word about the site through posters, yard signs, e-mail, Web logs and cards. More than 650 anonymous confessions and 50,000 hits later the site has apparently become a starting point for individuals looking to come clean about hidden sin and hurtful situations long buried away. . .
I’ve seen the signs around town at intersections so this is a pretty big deal. As for the concept itself, my first reaction to it was somewhat positive. Confessing one’s sins online seems a bit strange to me (and even stranger the fact that these confessions are published online for the public to see), but confession is good for the soul and maybe this is a good first step for folks.
But on further thought, I’m really troubled by the nature of this website. What strikes me is that the categories of secret sins all have to do with a few familiar moral categories – sexuality, drug and alcohol abuse, adictive behavior, and stealing. However, what is notably absent from the list are some really big things — materialism, selfishness (not counting the specific manifestation of theft), racial or gender prejudice and hatred, acts of violence, verbal abuse, disrespectful language, failing to forgive, etc. In fact, it is almost as if the folks behind Mysecret.tv have omitted a good chunk of the Sermon on the Mount in deciding their categories of sin. — Oh and don’t even start on the sins of omission, of the times when we know the good we ought to do and do not do it.
For instance, where would I confess the sin that I drive too much and eat too much, when so many are suffering from having not enough? Where do I confess the sin that I don’t give enough of my money to the poor? Where do I confess the fact that sometimes I struggle with racial prejudice (even if it is in the dark recesses of your soul)? Where do I confess the sin that I pay taxes to a government that is using my dollars to kill people in Iraq and in our prison system? These are real sins, but there is no room to confess them at Mysecret.tv.
Anyway I know I sound overly critical of Mysecret.tv (and its creator Life Church.tv — btw, I didn’t make that up. Their web address is also their church name, no fooling.), but I feel like this website is emblematic of the shallowness of American Christianity and its blanket endorsement of materialistic shallow lives as long as one doesn’t do anything “bad” in the eyes of the church when it comes to sex, drugs, etc.
I certainly agree. People need to look at the list of fruits of the flesh in Galatians and take them all into account, as well as the passages you pointed out.
Mr. Barnum
I would like to respectfully invite you to attend Lifechurch.tv. Meet the people who make up the body at the church. You will find many of them will tell you that the reason
they are a Christ follower is because Lifechruch.tv met them where they were in life much like Christ did throughout his ministry. I would be happy to meet you at any service you would prefer.
Kyle McClain
The whole idea of this rubs me the wrong way… Not so much the categories, that’s one thing. I just think it seems more like
a way to allow nosy people to read other people’s dark secrets. Its almost like an “aren’t I naughty?” brag book.
It’s also difficult to read it without getting the feeling that there are plenty of other Christians who do terrible things,
so you should feel too guilty about anything you do. Whatever happened to confessing sins through prayer thru the holy spirit?
dude that life church is really crazy. I mean I like the idea of trying out new technologies to see if they can advance the Kingdom of God, but I think they may be going too far and just using whatever technology they can think of as fast as they can. I think we can all take a lesson from the Amish who only think you should use technology when it is spiritually beneficial. I am not sure if logging on to talk about your secret little affairs ANONYMOUSLY is really going to help you much. I mean is it even really confessing whenever nobody knows who you are. Kind of lame as a whole I think.
You guys just don’t get it…period.They are not asking people to confess and it will all be over.They are saying this is the FIRST step. When we admit our shortcomings, that is when we can truly face them head on. They can’t list EVERY sin there is….that would take multiple websites. Believe it or not, some people are admitting their secrets for the first time.Then, they are seeking forgiveness, solutions,etc. The website may be used by sick people who are curious, but it is intended for people to feel that they can get things off of their chest. What would we do with our time if we did not get to criticize what churches are doing?? At least there are good intentions behind it. They are not perfect and they know it. You should confess sins through prayer (Summer) they are not saying not to. If you have a hard time reading them, then please refrain and leave that to the people of lifechurch.tv that are actually reading them and praying for each and every entry!! Also-the reason they put lifechurch.tv in their name is because there are a ton of churches called “life church”.They wanted to stand out.
Kyle said: “I would like to respectfully invite you to attend Lifechurch.tv. Meet the people who make up the body at the church. You will find many of them will tell you that the reason they are a Christ follower is because Lifechruch.tv met them where they were in life much like Christ did throughout his ministry. I would be happy to meet you at any service you would prefer.”
I agree that LifeChurch.tv does some good stuff and that some of their members have been deeply touched through the work of that church.
But I also think that the church is selling pop-cultural, dumbed down, sensationalistic kind of gospel, and as such folks are only getting half the message or worse are being led down a path that is inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus.
For instance, LifeChurch.tv is selling itself using corporate approaches of salesmanship. I think this is wrong, because the corporate method of sales exploits peoples’ needs and desires to get them to buy something. Lifechurch.tv of course would say that it is for a good cause (in this case saving souls and bring folks into the church), but I question whether the ends can justify the means.
Frankly, there are many who are attracted to Lifechurch.tv, but I think there are many more who are turned off by it. I’m one of them and so are many of my friends. (but then again, I’m a Mennonite and go to a church of 15 who meet in an old house in Northeast OKC, so I’m way on the side of being super-uncool).
Anyway, I don’t mean to dog on Lifechurch.tv so much but rather on the broader movement that Lifechurch.tv is a part of.
Also here’s some conversation about this a internet community that I occassionally participate in…
http://vagrantcafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22341
“But I also think that the church is selling pop-cultural, dumbed down, sensationalistic kind of gospel, and as such folks are only getting half the message or worse are being led down a path that is inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus.”
I don’t think you have attended or listened to LifeChurch.tv messages online. At least not completely. I was once concerned that LifeChurch.tv was another one of these “seeker” churches that try to easy people into a relationship with God by making it “feel-good”. I was mistaken. While I could see where people might be turned off by their music styles that are used in “worship”…I do not think that any believer could call the message “dumbed-down” or sensationalistic. I think you are broadly lumping LifeChurch.tv into a category of churches that it does not belong in. The reason that they are seeing such amazing growth is because they seem to have tapped into a part of culture that wants church that doesn’t feel like traditional church or has been burnt by the Church, but still has a hard hitting message that does not apologize for offensive truth of the Gospel. I have been to MANY churches in my lifetime and I have never been to a church that is as deep/spriritually challenging and Biblically centered as LifeChurch.tv is. Again, I do agree that there are MANY other churches “seeker” type churches that choose to try to make the gospel an easier thing to swallow…not LifeChurch though.
“For instance, LifeChurch.tv is selling itself using corporate approaches of salesmanship. I think this is wrong, because the corporate method of sales exploits peoples’ needs and desires to get them to buy something. Lifechurch.tv of course would say that it is for a good cause (in this case saving souls and bring folks into the church), but I question whether the ends can justify the means.”
Again…I know someone who works at the church and have attended a number of times. I believe that most of what Life Church does to “sell” the church is have the people that attend the church tell others about it and give them tools to do that. That seems pretty Biblical to me…I am not aware of any times that LC has “exploited” peoples needs . I know from the messages I see online, that Life Church does not tell people that the Gospel is some sort of quick fix for their emotions. I guess it would be good to here you explain what an example of that would be. As I am typing this, I wonder though how a person/church could selfishly(the negative definition of exploit) convince a person to follow Christ. Anyway…curious about your examples.
“I don’t think you have attended or listened to LifeChurch.tv messages online. At least not completely.”
That is true. I’ve only heard excerpts (as I’ve discussed previously on my blog — see http://jmbzine.com/wordpress/?p=143 and http://jmbzine.com/wordpress/?p=127 ), but I also have seen the advertizing campaigns of the church and their website.
I do not doubt that there is more substance to Life Church behind the scenes and that many people are ministered to in significant ways, both in small group settings and through the teaching ministry of the church.
However, I don’t think the good that is being done can cover the fact that the way that LifeChurch.tv markets itself is troubling. American culture is advertizing-driven and instead of challenging that, Life Church is jumping in head first.
I also find it troubling that Life Church is so hung up on technology. I am far from a luddite (heck, I write a blog), but some how I think that Christian worship should be something seperate from the dog and pony show of everyday life, and I think especially should be free of the culture of celebrity worship. Life Church instead exalts the teaching of one man ( http://lifechurch.tv/p/77/Default.aspx ) by telecasting the preaching to all of the different Life Church’s. Why not have different pastors at each church that are truly connected to that individual congregation? Personally, why even “go to church” if all you are going to be doing is watching a video screen? It honestly just feels like the American culture’s belief that bigger is better, no matter if intimacy and genuiness is thrown out the window.
Anyway I really don’t mean to dog so much on LifeChurch, it is just that by virtue of their advertizing and their gimmics they have become something of a monolithic force on the OKC religious scene. I’m really glad that folks are being ministered to, wherever they get it from, and truth be told probably Life Church, despite its problems in my eyes, does more good than harm.
JM,
It really concerns me that you have so much to say about LifeChurch.tv but have never actually attended a full service. That means the marketing aspect (what little there is) is all you see. Of course it will appear as though they market a lot. But if you take that in perspective of what they offer and how infrequent marketing campaigns are, I believe you’d see it differently. Also, even though I attend the church, MySecret.Tv is the first major marketing campaign I have seen outside of the church walls since the first of this year. What other campaigns have you seen? If they turly are a “monolithic force on the OKC religious scene”, wouldn’t I have seen more as well?
As for technology, I believe we’ll have to agree to disagree. I will be the first to admit, that I have a hard time connecting with God during a traditional worship service, the kind I grew up with. But at LC, I can really feel it. The lighting helps too. Since it’s dark, it affords me more privacy. I don’t worry about worshipping when others can’t see what I’m doing. While I’ll admit it’s not for everyone, can you at least acknowledge that this form of worship may work for some? Especially those that LifeChurch attracts, which are people who haven’t connected to the Church before through other forms.
Hi Shadowette,
First, thanks for your candid thoughts.
I guess I should attend a full service at Life Church, but I have been to churches that use similiar worship styles (I’ve visited Bridgeway Church near Edmond for their Sunday worship service a few times). I do hear your point as to why some people might find the LifeChurch.tv mode of worship to be meaningful. I myself was rather troubled by the dark lighting (at the Bridgeway service) because you couldn’t see your fellow worshipers and also because it seemed like it encouraged a spectator-dynamic to the service (i.e. few people in the congregation were actually singing). But I can see how other folks would find the experience to be freeing and positive.
As to the advertizing campaigns, you’re right about the traditional modes of advertizing. I haven’t seen any TV commercials (that said, I don’t watch a lot of TV these days, since I get off work at 2:30 a.m. and all that is on at that hour is crap). They do have quite a bit of print advertizing (I believe in the Gazette if I recall correctly), but not more than other megachurches. But LifeChurch.tv is doing a lot to build up “brand loyalty” for their church brand, including by using their website name as their church name, and by engaging in publicity stunts like Mysecret.tv. These efforts (what some kind “viral advertizing”) are less obvious, but do seem to be rather calculated and they give me a bad taste in my mouth.
With regards to logos and the like, here’s an interesting article that discusses why the Church should reject the corporate mindset with regards to branding…
http://www.redemptoristpublications.com/reality/march03/nologo.html
Also here’s a Christian critique of the Adbusters movement…
http://www.kaleochurch.com/culture/article.php?content=adbusters.html&type=other
I have been to two services. One was about how to do your finances. One was about Toy Story.
What did you think about the services? I’m assuming those must have not been regular worship services, but in general what were your impressions?
No, no the ones I attended were regular old worship services (as in Sunday morning.) My impression (and I must add here that this is JUST a first time impression based only on the couple of services that I have attended) was that it appeared to be a casual service where people really did worship (in music, prayer). From the perspective of someone who has been to church their entire life, the lessons themselves seemed a bit more like what you would hear at a weekend religious conference or a Sunday school special course. I know many churches will have special classes on marriage, or single living, or finances — it sort of brought this to mind. I did get the impression that Lifechurch.tv is VERY well suited for new Christians, for teens, and for outreach to people who would normally be very bored with, and perhaps would never regularly attend, the traditional protestant church service format. It was incredibly popular among college students when the TV broadcast came to Stillwater.
I remember once going to a mega-church in the Oklahoma City area about 10 years ago that had a whole separate Sunday morning service exclusively for teenagers, where it was apparent that they were trying very hard to keep teens coming back with or without their parents, for an entertaining experience where they would also be taught how to live a Christian life, etc. They had a very charismatic youth minister who delivered a message to 150+ teens. Lifechurch.tv reminded me a lot of this.
All that to say, I believe Lifechurch.tv is a modern and technologically advanced way that people have chosen to minister to a particular type individual that might not feel as confortable in Grandma’s old fashioned church. (Think, Sister Act.) Lots of churches right now appear to be somewhere in between. I personally would not feel comfortable going there all the time just because I prefer a different sort of sermon, etc. But as long as they are managing to teach the word of God to those who would not otherwise hear it, from my first impression, I approve. I still have a major problem with the MySecret.tv Web site though. Gives me the heeby-jeebies.
Authentic preaching does not happen via jumbo-tron. Period.
You cannot follow the teachings of Jesus and also the teachings of Mammon. Period.
(And I knew Craig back in the day when he was Methodist—went to his services, which ended up being dry run for LifeChurch. Sincere guy but a bit cocky.)
Chutney-you don’t know the Craig I know.Maybe he was a little cocky ummm 11 or 12 years ago when you knew him but he is not now….very humble! I guess only you can decide if his preaching is “authentic”. I attend every week so I get to decide that for myself and yet, it is real and relevant….very honest. If reading the Bible is following the teaching of “mammon”, then why do you not consider all the other churches to be following “mammon” as well? Are you saying that all pastors are self serving or just this one in particular that you seem to have a problem with? Here’s just another example of someone making a mis-guided and distorted view of Craig and of of Lifechurch from the outside. I might validate you if you had been attending for awhile (but of course I would still disagree). When I am seeing God change lives every week, there is no way that I can say that Jesus did not do that. How could one man (Craig) lead people to the Lord every week and draw them in??? Well, frankly, he can’t, it is through the one man (Jesus) that all of it takes place. Craig would tell you that himself.
“Authentic preaching does not happen via jumbo-tron. Period.” -Chutney
That’s a very broad narrow-minded statement. I’m sure there are many who would say that Messiah couldn’t be the son of a carpenter either.
RE: sin
Original Sin And God’s Plan
http://beepbeepitsme.blogspot.com/
I don’t need to attend LifeChurch (not that there’s one anywhere near me) to know that Jesus wouldn’t have used one. I don’t remember him ever renting space at the local Forum or Colliseum. His methods were much more simple and much less gimicky than that.
If someone can’t receive the Gospel without a jumbo-tron, then they don’t want to receive it—what they actually want is spiritual entertainment. Soul candy, if you will.
The idea that you can’t critique Craig or LifeChurch without hanging out there a while is bogus. A critique is either true or not. Whether or not someone has visited your church for sixteen and half Sundays has no bearing on its truth or lack thereof.
I’m sure Craig gives Jesus the credit, as you said. But that can become a vicious circle. When a church gives Jesus the credit for everything a leader does, pretty soon everything that leader does is seen as the work of Jesus. But what about when it’s not?
How often does LifeChurch point out when Craig screws up? And I don’t mean Craig getting onto himself during a sermon. How often does the church point that out? I don’t mean condemn him. I mean, admit that Craig has a trouble with his temper, or that he can’t run a meeting, or something like that. (Just examples off the top of my head, not meaning to attribute them to Craig).
I’m sure that LifeChurchers would readily say that Craig is a sinner like the rest of us. But that’s very abstract. What, specifically, are Craig’s vices? I mean, does he have any? I’m not really interested in his more personal ones, ones that are nobody’s business but his and Amy’s. I mean, what are his vices that effect the way he runs LifeChurch? Does he have any? At all? If so, how, specifically, do they hurt LifeChurch? Does anyone know?
I’m not trying to start a witch hunt. But how much of what Craig does is flesh but gets blamed on Jesus? How do you guys know when Craig is following Craig? Do the jumbo-tron handlers put up a note or anything?
What was Craig’s last bad decision? And how did it hurt the mission of LifeChurch?
I’d guess that if no one within twenty seats of you on a given Sunday can answer these questions, and specifically, you’ve got a personality cult going on, not a church. Put differently: we will know whether or not LifeChurch is a personality cult by how y’all treat Craig.
(Does Craig still talk about how much he looks like Superman during his sermons? Just wondering…)
Also, I’m wondering which of the posts on MySecret belong to Craig.
Chutney,
Well, as a staff person, I can answer all of your questions about Craig’s sins that have affected the church and how drastically they’ve hurt our mission at different times, but I won’t. And I h ighly doubt you will find anyone else who will. Because, obviously, it will do us no good whatsoever. We could put Craig up as the best pastor in the world or as the worse, you will form your own opinion and no one will shake you from it. You don’t like him. We understand that. So how about moving on to something that you might actually be more openminded about. New topic anyone?
Here’s a new topic…
I do believe that LifeChurch touches the lives of many. I am not an anti-LifeChurch idealogue and I want to make that very clear, so that my criticism can be heard as coming from hopefully a loving critic.
So that said, I tend to agree with Chutney’s statement that “Authentic preaching does not happen via jumbo-tron. Period.”
The reason is an old adage I learned in a mass media class in college – “The medium is the message.”
The problem with the use of compelling mass media tools is that they are too compelling, too dynamic, too entertaining. The tools themselves begin to be the focal point instead of the message itself. A good example of this was in Ray Bradbury’s book Fahrenheit 451, where that in his future society, most people were completely sedated by the innanity of the giant video walls that most people had in their houses, to such an extent that most folks had quit reading actual books altogether.
Now, I know that LifeChurch is far from the world of F451, but I don’t think it is that far away either. I think that Christian’s should critique modern society and technology and should be very hesitant to adopt new practices without fulling understanding the implications of adopting those things.
No jumbo tron??? Well if technology post Christ is barred for “authentic preaching” then you
you can’t use a Bible (which wasn’t even available to the public before the 1500’s; you need
ban microphones, amplifiers, church bullitens…. well, you see the point. The Gospel never changes
but the method of spreading the Gospel constantly changes. Face it, the crux of criticism of Life Church
is its too big. They should start turning away people when they hit 250 people. That should
satisfy the critics.
“The medium is the message.” Perhaps a better summary of John 1 has never been made.
I don’t like Craig? I didn’t know that. I just think he’s cocky. And I think LifeChurch has the wrong approach.
But whatever you need to not engage with my points. Obviously no cult of personality going on here. Move along, move along.
“No jumbo tron??? Well if technology post Christ is barred for “authentic preaching†then you
you can’t use a Bible (which wasn’t even available to the public before the 1500’s; you need
ban microphones, amplifiers, church bullitens…. well, you see the point.”
Actually I’m not anti-technology per say (as I’ve already addressed), but I do think technology can be misused and some technology can be downright dangerous and needs to be critically examined.
I think having preaching be done via video is a bad trend. Why can’t each individual life church “campus” (once upon a time, you called individual groups of believers meeting in a single geographics location a “congregation” but I guess that’s old fashioned) have their own pastor? Why is Craig’s message so all-fired special that only he can deliver it? Seriously, that is what it sure sounds like to me.
“…Face it, the crux of criticism of Life Church is its too big. They should start turning away people when they hit 250 people. That should
satisfy the critics.”
I think any church that is so big that its pastor has been shown telephonically is too big. Why not birth new daughter churches? I used to be a member of Hope chapel in Austin, TX. When we were to the point of having 3 services and considering building a bigger facility, we instead planted a new church in another part of town. That seemed like a good decision to me, and frankly it would be a good thing for Life Church to do.
“I think any church that is so big that its pastor has been shown telephonically is too big.”
Sorry, I meant to say, “I think any church that is so big that its pastor’s message has to be delivered telephonically is too big.”
Listen to all of you… how can you say that any church that is so big that the pastors message has to be delivered telephonically, is too big?
If these people are finding God through Craigs messages, whom otherwise wouldn’t give church or Gods word the time of day, then who are you to criticize how it is done? Who are you to criticize any pastor for wanting to share his testimony of God, with the entire WORLD, if he wants to? If Craigs style of ministering Gods word even brings ONE person closer to God than who are you to question or speak poorly of his intentions? The influence of one name comes to mind when I think of someone that wants to stop people from knowing God…
Instead of wasting all of your energy on finding negative things to say about our pastor why don’t you focus on leading people to God.
As for the mysecret web page… Again, if even one person feels that it helps them find peace and forgiveness or it helps save even one friendship, or marriage, or one life. If it helps ONE person give their life to God then who are you to question how it is done?
Passage Matthew 18:12-14:
12″What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.
Actually, each campus DOES have their own pastor. And OFTEN, each campus pastor will take turns preaching each week. So it’s not a Pastor Craig show. He is the senior pastor. And each campus has their own Campus Pastor.
And sorry to add a little sarcasm (runs in the family)…I guess if we can’t use the jumbotron….we’ve got to criticize Billy Graham, too. Sorry. Not me. Had to get used to the video (still not a big fan, strictly b/c I wasn’t used to it, no other reason) but once I realized EACH CAMPUS has their own community, I’ll all for it. God is good all the time! And all the time, God is good.
“Listen to all of you… how can you say that any church that is so big that the pastors message has to be delivered telephonically, is too big?”
I can just hear them tellin’ Paul “I can’t believe you used a boat to spread the gospel,
God gave you arms to swim with and legs to walk!” I think when we try to place human limits on how
best to spread the Word, we are in error. Why should LifeChurch or any church cede the internet to
porn and banal blogging, or the Jumbo-tron to the sportsbar.
While many may feel that mysecret.tv is “emblematic of the shallowness of American Christianity,” we would do well to remember that many who are using this site for their confessions are, for lack of a better word, first-time confessors. They have not been exposed to traditional methods of confession and are therefore either unfamiliar with them or uncomfortable with them. The use of technology speaks their language and for this we should not be critical. Just because it does not fit into our compartmentalized view of what is proper or othrodox, does not mean that it it is not profitable. We should rejoice that the kingdom is big and expresses itself in diverse ways.
Interesting that Pastor Craig Groeschel, who founded mysecret.tv, has also written a book of his own confessions titled “Confessions of a Pastor: Adventures in Dropping the Pose and Getting Real with God.” Without the guise of anonymity, he honestly expresses his sins and struggles. We often forget that pastors are sinful men just like us and that they have issues that they struggle with.
http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Pastor-Adventures-Dropping-Getting/dp/1590527208/ref=pd_sxp_f_r/102-3136564-8167359?ie=UTF8